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1150 views,  3 edit(s),  6314 characters(s) Page last modified 10:03, 12 Oct 2012 by aesdaile.w
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Metric Casework Family Template - Incorrect Parameter Type

    Incorrect Parameter Type in OOTB Metric Casework.rft  

    Finish Parameter is TEXT type, not Material 

    • Open a Family based on the OOTB Metric Caseork.rft Family Template.
    • Try to assign a Material to the 'Finish' Parameter in the Materials & Finishes Section
    • A Material cannot be assigned as this Parameter is a TEXT field, not a MATERIAL Field
    • This is contrary to every other Family Template, in which the 'Finish' Parameter is a MATERIAL field.

    To attempt to solve this issue:

    1. Create a Family from Metric Generic Model.rft
    2. Change Catergory to CASEWORK
    3. 'Finish' Parameter is automatically created as a TEXT field. Again, this is contrary to every other use of the 'Finish' Parameter name in Revit.
    4. Attempt FAILED.

    To attempt to solve this issue again:

    1. Create a Family from Metric Generic Model.rft
    2. Create a 'Finish' parameter, explictly set Parameter Type to MATERIAL
    3. Change Category to CASEWORK.
    4. Revit automatically creates 'Finish' Parameter as TEXT field, and AUTOMATICALLY, SILENTLY (WITHOUT ANY WARNING OR NOTIFICATION) RENAMES THE USER-CREATED FIELD TO FINISH_X
    5. The result of step 4. is not only inconsistent with the use of the 'Finish' parameter elsewhere, it also results in the automatic, unavoidable editing of user-created data. This is extrememly troubling, as we can no longer trust Revit to maintain data integrity. The automatic, silent renaming of user created paramaters should be utterly forbidden!

    Why this is a massive problem for implementing BIM:

    1. 'Finish' is a very basic parameter within all Revit families, and in almost all cases can be populated with a MATERIAL.
    2. Users expect that a 'Finish' parameter will accept a MATERIAL type.
    3. One single instance of an inconsistent parameter causes confusion.
    4. Finish Schedules that include Casework no longer operate correctly, as there are now two different data TYPES for the same Parameter.
    5. The result is the 'Finish' Parameter CANNOT BE USED if consistency is required within documentation.
    6. The 'Finish' parameter is IMPOSSIBLE TO REMOVE from Casework Families as it appears to be in some way 'protected' by Revit.
    7. A 'rogue' parameter in a complex BIM project causes chaos, havoc, confusion as users fill in 'Finish' expecting to be reported, but is must be ignored due to data type incompatibilities noted above. The parameter cannot be removed, so effort must be made to document that users are NOT TO USE the 'Finish' parameter - which most users find to be utterly confusing.
    8. The lack of an ability to create a 'clean' Family with ONLY the parameters required by the project is utterly baffling.
    9. Point 8 above also applies to other 'rogue' parameters within Revit such as 'Rough Width'  - if a project has no need for such parameters, or uses other parameters to provide the same function - there is NO METHOD of cleaning such unused parameters from a family or project.
    10. WORST OF ALL - the discovery that Revit will happily automatically, SILENTLY rename a parameter throws the entire concept of TRUST in database integrity out the window. This action goes against every documented principle of BIM database maintenance and programming - you DO NOT change parameters automatically and silently!

    What needs to be done by Autodesk to fix this:

    1. CORRECT the Metric Casework.RFT template so that the 'Finish' parameter is a MATERIAL type.
    2. ALLOW users to customise RFT files to suit their own requirements.
    3. ALLOW the removal of default parameters from RFT files (NOT from RFA files; only from RFT files. ie. Make RFT files user-editable - which they currently are NOT)
    4. REMOVE the ability for Revit to 'clobber' user-created parameters, OR PROVIDE a warning that parameters are being renamed.
    5. REMOVE or MAKE OPTIONAL the action of automatically creating 'default' parameters when a family Category is changed.
    Comments

    Comments3

    • loboarchTue Oct 16, 2012 11:15 amThe "Finish" parameter in casework families is a text parameter because it is intended for use to describe the actual finish of the material not the material itself. This parameter is defined at the system level so that is why you are seeing the behavior you are seeing with renaming, etc... To add a material parameter to casework families you will need to use a name other than "finish" for it because this parameter name is reserved in this family type.

      Jeff Hanson
      Autodesk Revit
    • aesdaile.wTue Oct 16, 2012 4:14 pmHi Jeff,
      Without getting into a large BIM discussion as to whether or not a 'finish' is something different to a 'material', the big issue for us is th lack of any ability to REMOVE parameters when they are not used, and serve onlt to confuse end users. A similar example is 'Rough Width / Height' for the Door category.

      While I understand the behaviour of system families, I cannot understand the logic behind the inflexible stance of 'protecting' some parameters for some categories. If 'Finish' is an important system parameter, why is it NOT applied to ALL families, the same way 'Model' & 'Description' are? Why is 'Finish' only applicable to Casework? The existence of 'Finish' only within Casework seems arbitrary, and possibly there to maintain some sort of 'backwards compatibility' to prior families.

      The ability to be able to edit ALL parameters is becoming increasingly important in the field of BIM, as leaving empty, unused and ambigous parameters littered around projects simple causes confusion. If we have to spend time and documentation space to point out that users should NOT enter the 'Finish' in the 'Finish' field for Casework, because elsewhere we define 'Finish' as 'Finish_Our_Parameter' as a Material is time we've wasted - if we could modify or delete the parameter the issue is resolved cleanly and elegantly.

      The same can be said for many other seemingly arbitrary parameters, escpecially ones like the 'Rough Width' parameter - this is a term we would rather not see on our documentation!

      Finally the discovery that Revit will 'clobber' a user-generated parameter is a bit worrying - there should at mimimun be some sort of warning that parameters have been renamed!

      The ability to modify 'system' parameters used to be available in via the undocumented method of renaming RFT files and editing them as families, which is what we used to do. Now that this method is blocked there is no way to modify these unwanted parameters.

      ANY form of modification would be preferable - renaming or moving to a different parameter group. If would could move the 'Finish' parameter to 'Other', or rename it to 'Ignore' we could at least obfuscate or hide it from end users, but as it is we have to document that there are parameters in some categories that need to be ignored.

      Theer are many other quirks with the Parameters that cause trouble (the action of parameters defined as 'Hidden' in Shared Parameter files being trreated in an arbitrarily random way is one of them) and there are many other parameter function that should be OOTB rather than rely on 3rd parties to provide functionality (a 'fingerprint' or 'who last edited this family' field would be EXTREMELY useful!)
    • loboarchWed Oct 17, 2012 6:54 amI understand the issues you are describing and these are mostly related to generally how families and assiciated parameters work in Revit . The best place to send comments like this, is to our Feedback Form. By logging your comment there the entire Revit team will see your requests and be able to consider them as Revit is developed in the future.

      Jeff Hanson
      Autodesk Revit
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